Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carrie on October 31, 2011 at 3:55pm

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/article/633688

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on November 1, 2011 at 5:18pm

 

yeah, i find that often aspies see through the social veneer of people to the real person underneath.  i guess you could call this feeling emotions too intensely.  it`s confusing to interact with someone on a level that they themselves are trying to hide, even though it`s so obvious to me.

 

i don`t think this idea has been addressed very much in the popular media.  not being able to see the nonverbal stuff (which is almost all social veneer) means that we are able to see past it.

 

this doesn`t always result in an accurate assessment of a person, but it certainly can make it difficult and unpleasant for the person being assessed, especially if they are actively socialising in a group.  i`ve learned to communicate mostly on a one to one basis because of this.  when i`m in a group, i try to have an "anchor" or someone i`m already on good terms with so that i can integrate more easily into what`s going on over my head.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 12:03am

i`m not sure what you mean by "out there."  one of the worst things about this condition is that it`s usually invisible.

i struggle every day with how to present myself to people, and what my expectations of other people should be.  my opinion tends to change with how angry or frustrated i am at the time.

my basic position is that i have as much right to exist as anyone else, and equally as much right to be "me" as anyone else has to be them.  so i do have some expectation that people need to adjust to me, just as much as i need to adjust to them.

i don`t have the time or energy to care about every person i may have confused or offended.  no one does.  i try my best to communicate to people who and what i am, but if they don`t or can`t get it, it`s not my problem.  it`s theirs.

the other part of this is that if all of us autistics pretend not to exist, we never will.  we have to shove ourselves in peoples` faces and make them deal with us.  we are basically just another minority, and just like any other minority, we have a long, hard road ahead of us.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 12:11am

educate, educate, educate.  not just your child, but everyone he comes in contact with.  advocate and activate.  make his world a better place for him to live in.  don`t let adults get away with treating him poorly, but also don`t let him get away with taking advantage of it.

love him like the dickens and teach him to love even the ignorant people who hurt him.  they don`t know any better, after all...

teach him what a real friend is and help him find them.  he`ll need some people on his side that aren`t related to him.

unfortunately, i can`t agree with you that many parents and therapists understand asperger`s much at all.  be careful.

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Permalink Reply by Brian R. King LCSW on December 31, 2011 at 7:35am

Hi Michael and Welcome Molly,

My driving motto as a parent is "Prepare my children for the world while preparing the world for my children." As an aspie raising aspies I found myself in the position of having to master the various strategies I'd have to teach them as well. In my latest book I explain those strategies.

We don't put ourselves "out there" without being prepared any more than you would venture into the wilderness without the best tools including a map. 

The solution also doesn't lie in forcing ourselves upon others and demanding acceptance. If someone only spoke Chinese and demanded others who don't speak Chinese to accept them just as they are without working to find a common way of communicating then that's a recipe for disaster in communication and relationships.

Yes, we spectrumites are a growing population and much to offer this world but me must learn to take the lead in communicating our needs and showing the world how to communicate with us.

The key Molly is to equip him with strategies, AS or not he must be equipped with the tools of self-awareness, self-advocacy and self-determination that will allow him to effectively navigate social situations. 

I have dozens of articles and am adding audio programs to the blog area of this site that help get you started in the right direction.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 11:45am

ok, but the only problem that i have with that is that it`s impossible to be better than everyone else all the time. we have to be allowed to be flawed and human just like anyone else.  that means it has to be ok for us to be ourselves at least every once in a while.  and that means we have to be ok with putting our own needs above other peoples`, even if it means we are "forcing ourselves upon them."

now let`s assume we had the perfect tools and the perfect map.  maybe things wouldn`t be that way.  but unfortunately, we have vastly inadequate tools and maps.  nt and autie alike, are still stumbling in the darkness.  you have very noble goals, and that`s good.  so do i.  but the world doesn`t yet recognise those.

aim high, shoot low.

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Permalink Reply by Brian R. King LCSW on December 31, 2011 at 3:59pm

The objective isn't perfection, being human is all about having moments where things don't go as planned, that's how we learn. Aspies and NT's alike need to learn how to do things before they can do them. For Aspies we have to learn the communication skills others seem to pick up more easily. 

One thing I have learned though, is that putting our needs above others runs the risk of appearing as though we feel our needs are more important. This can lead to resentment and people won't volunteer to be in relationships where their own needs come second.

Success will only be found when we learn to work together so we both benefit. It isn't a matter of getting the world to recognize it, it begins one relationships at a time.

My goal isn't to make the world get it. My goal is to improve the relationships with those I can influence and teach others to do the same. 

Lastly, we only have inadequate tools and maps until we replace them with more effective ones. I've spent the better part of the past 20 years finding the best tools and I share them with others. But I can't make them pick the tools up and use them.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 5:50pm

so maybe we need our own little china.  until things are more healthy.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 10:02pm

well, i guess what we`re saying here is that he will probably not, on his own, at this point time, be able to fully avoid teasing, bullying and shunning without some cooperation from the nts he comes in contact with.

i have no idea how severely affected your child is, so i can`t say how much this might impact on him.

think of it like a missing sense like hearing or sight.  the social organ is totally or partially missing.  so your child has to overcome that using his other senses and/or intellect.

one thing that is known is that auties have a problem with generalising what they learn.  we can apply it easily to the specific situation that we have been taught, but have tremendous difficulty doing so when the environment is changed, even a little.  we`re very literal.

we need things to be verbally and intellectually told to us in as much detail as possible.  and typically we need to make a lot of mistakes before we figure it out.

this problem isn`t going to be solved just by giving an autie a book full of all the skills he needs.  most of us are never going to appear "normal," no matter how hard we try.  and unfortunately, currently, that is what most nts seem to want.

so even if you start with one relationship, or you target a larger group (for instance, the rehabilitative system that autistic teenagers use to find and keep jobs), it will require hard work and cooperation from everyone involved.

i`m autistic and i have autistic kids of my own.  personally, i don`t just want them to be able to function reasonably well in a hostile world.  i also want them to live in a better world than i did.  to me, that means changing as many people around me as possible.  no kid should have to go through what i did.

think globally, act locally

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Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on December 31, 2011 at 10:39pm

no, i think we did have a misconnect.

so why don`t you fill in some more detail.  how old, what has been done so far, what kinds of problems, what kinds of issues with excusing behaviour...

i see now we`ve been talking too generally, when what you need is more specific information.

Permalink Reply by Brian R. King LCSW on January 1, 2012 at 9:51am

Molly, with everything you've described the solution can only be found from changing the family dynamic and not through individual therapy. His entire view of the world can change when the relationships with his parents and those he sees everyday become more focused on being present with each other and driven by what you want to create together instead of what's missing. Please check this out http://goo.gl/eB6Yj 

Permalink Reply by Michael Crosby on January 1, 2012 at 1:25pm

he sounds just like i was.  so i think i should be able to help some.

i`m going to suggest that it`s likely his behaviour will escalate rather suddenly when he gets to a more independent age.  it`s hard to tell when this will be because all auties mature and vastly different rates.  my point is, that it`s important to start fixing this now.

it sounds like his therapist is no help at all.  i think this is the first thing you need to fix.  find a therapist that can help him.  if he has someone outside the family who he can see is on his side and helping him to feel better, that will make a huge difference.

along the same lines, you need to find or make a group of other auties so that he doesn`t feel isolated and alone, so that he can see that he`s not really that abnormal.

medication can help, but only to the extent it can help his anxiety and depression.  it will take time and patience to find the right meds.  some of the meds will make him worse, but typically, you have to try a few before you find the right one.

has he been evaluated by a testing psychologist ?  it would probably help tremendously to find out exactly what his strong and weak points are.  for instance, i never knew i have a severe learning disability because it manifests itself in a very subtle way.

his acting out at school is a result of frustration and confusion.  nothing goes the way people say it will, because they don`t understand how his mind works and what he needs to succeed (i`m talking mostly socially in this case).

just as he`s not aware of his own behaviour, he doesn`t really understand other peoples` behaviour at all.  so he wouldn`t be able to tell when people are doing things that show that they like him.  much of that is very subtle. what he needs are concrete examples shown and explained to him.  as many as possible, in as many different situations as possible.

now, here`s where it gets tricky...  stress makes autistic symptoms ramp up.  in other words, the more stressed he is, the more autistic he`s going to think and behave.  he`s probably at the point now where he`s basically just reacting to everything and unable to catch up to the point where he can pro-act at all.  this needs to change.  i don`t know enough about the situation to suggest how to change it.

by all means, take him to a child psychiatrist or psychologist.  but make sure it`s someone who actually knows what they are talking about.  and trust me, they are hard to find.  but the extra effort will definitely be worth it.

he`s angry at the teachers because he wants to trust them and he can`t.  they can`t protect him, and they can`t help him with the kids.  he has lost, or is rapidly losing, any respect for them or any authority figure.  what makes it worse, is that there`s really no one to blame.  i`m sure most people are doing the best they can to help him.  it`s just not working.

another thing he is probably totally unaware of is his sensory perception.  typically, auties are either hyper- or hypo- sensitive, or some combination of the two.  kids don`t usually recognise this because they have infinite energy and don`t know that what they are feeling is abnormal.  so what i`m saying is that there are probably times that he gets overwhelmed and acts out.  and there may be times when he doesn`t react to things that most people would.  but one of the most obvious ways that this manifests is in eating patterns.

temperature, texture, flavour, even colour will all affect his desire and ability to eat something.  many auties have a very limited diet as a result.  depression, anxiety and stress can also have a strong effect.

so, how to find a support group...  one place to look would be meetup.com.  this is also useful because it`s an easy way to start a support group if you find there isn`t one.

you can also try asking local support agencies if they know of any.  often there are groups meeting at local colleges or even high schools.  google autism and your local area, and then make the area progressively larger until you get a hit.  then ask whoever you find if they know of anything in or near your area.

it sounds like he needs an actual iep.  but to get that you probably need to have an independent dr advocate for it.  at this point, the school should be able to recognise the need for more effective intervention, but unfortunately they usually don`t do anything about it unless they are pushed hard.

there are no specific therapies that work for all auties.  but in general, what he needs is concrete, reality based, direct verbal instruction.  he needs to be able to see and experience it to be able to understand and internalise it.  one name for this is cognitive behavioral therapy.

um, i think that`s enough for one post...

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